Oh bullshit pardner. Yeah we're in real big danger of Islamic terrorists taking over the world. And you trying to tell me the thousands of Muslims we're killing won't create tens of thousands of terrorists. And instead to trusting your bullshit I've read and listened to common Iraqis that only want us to leave there country and leave them alone. And if you hadn't really pissed me off with your kindergarten name calling I'd have gotten a big laugh out of Bush and Cheney preserving our freedoms. Now facts talk and bullshit walks around here. So why don't you just tell us what our "job" is or you should shut the fuck up Ace.

 

to chsnash

What a tosser. I disagree with lots on this thread, but how about some coherent arguments instead of abuse.

 

Totally False. Some of the strongest protesters of the war are the soldiers who once served there in combat roles. I've personally met three.

 

OK, so tell me how many Iraqis you have spoken to. Tell me how you know that killing terrorist will create thousands more. And just exactly were are the "thousands"of Muslims we are killing? The only Muslims being killed over here are by other Muslims from Jayish Al-Mahdi, Al-Qaida, The Brigades of Islamic Revolution, The Brotherhood, AQIZ, and the several other groups and death squads around Baghdad. According to you the common Iraqi wants us to leave, that is simply not the case. Every time I go out in town, every meeting I go to, all we see are Iraqis waving at us. Every time we go to DAC's the tribal leaders give us gratitude, every time we give them money, food, electricity, building plans, materials, hospitals, schools, rec centers, treat wounded and sick people, every time we kill and arrest terrorists who are killing Iraqis every day we get nothing but thanks. The only people who are not grateful are dumb fucks like you. Yeah, mistakes were made over here, but it doesn't erase the facts. You say bullshit walks, better start walking motherfucker! My job is no concern to you, but I can guess that your job involves a name tag and a hair net.

 

So you have met at whopping total of......three soldiers who are protesting. I have met more people than that who think they are Elvis. Get the facts, the military knows what's up. I'll go easy on you, because you know guys who have been over here, and I haven't read any asenine quotes from you. The vast majority of troops, including those who served in combat know what we are doing is right.

 

Name calling is never the answer to solving any disagreements, so calm down a little, Chsnash...I thank you for going and serving our country, but you are not going to win any friends here by attacking a nice man. Attack his ideas, but not the man. You know nothing about him or any of us here...It is our right as Americans to state how we feel about what's happening involving our country...

 

chsnash has made me so mad that I'm just going to mouth off for a bit. I was going to dig a big for more information to support or disprove my view, but I just need to say this now. The one person who has done the most to encourage the spread of Islamic Terrorism is George W. Bush.

Compare the occupation of Iraq with the occupations of Germany and Japan after WWII. Iraq never surrendered. A coalition government never formed in Iraq. Iraq was never disarmed. War criminals in Japan and Germany were turned over to neutral outside parties.

Instead of treating the people of Iraq with respect, America has consistently patronized and demeaned them. Instead of attempting to involve the locals in an economic recovery, we have asked them to get out of our way.

By our actions we have fulfilled the predictions of the Islamic terrorism. We have demonstrated to them neither concern nor care, and as a result they are today stronger than they have ever been, able to point to our actions, not just our ideas as dangers to the Islamic way of life.

When the Iraq war first started one of my criticisms was that we didn't understand the way moslems (I'm pretty the spelling "muslim" is considered pejorative) think. This has been proved over and over again throughout the war (which, because we never got a surrender, can only end in our defeat). In Japan we made an attempt to understand the people involved as part of the occupation. No such attempt was made in Iraq and today America is weaker and Islamic Terrorism is stronger than they were before the war started.

George W. Bush needed an enemy and the enemy he found is all the better because of that need.

 

OK, you have to understand the rough edges of guys like me, very low tolerance for bullshit. Its frustrating to hear so many false stories, and spin the media puts on things over here. I was raised to respect women, so no name calling or abuse for you. Two things though, A. Myself and people like me are the reason why you and me and every other American has the rights we have, and B. winning friends is not really my game, especially when people are spilling out so much bullshit about the war, America, Bush (even though he has made some mistakes). When you give to much to people you don't even know, then have ass clowns make comments on things they no nothing about, then a little harsh language is in order.

 

OK asshole. 100% of the soldiers I've met personally who served in a combat role in Iraq but are no longer in the military think the war is bogus. Of those I've met who served in non-combat roles, more disapprove of the war than approve. 50% of the soldiers I've met who are still serving think the war is bogus but are unwilling to say so publicly while they are still serving. YOU I don't know, and the fact that you know so many people who they're Elvis shows that you hang around with crackpots that can't be trusted. That makes the odds good that you're just a crackpot yourself.

(Oh, yes. Congratulations! You've just won yourself the first spot on my "ignore" list.)

 

Coming from someone who just retired from U.S. military service last summer (and I have been in the Middle East a few times the past few years), I can tell you that a lot of servicemembers who believe the conflict is right is because the Commander-In-Chief says so, not because they truly believe it is the right thing to do. When Bush had started saying we went into Iraq because of WMD, and the objective now has totally changed, you have to wonder what is really going on in Wash. D.C. Do you think capturing Saddam really solved anything? I sure hope so. I don't think killing him did, but that's another story.

I truly hope the troops going into this conflict are not doing this in vain, I really hope there are positive changes that are happening in Iraq. I don't believe there would be any shame for the U.S. to pull back either.

I'm on the fence on the whole Iraq issue because I've been on both sides, as a servicemember and a civilian. I like to think we are doing the right thing, but the longer I am out of the service, I'm starting to believe more we need to start pulling out.

 

i'm sorry to tell u, chsnash, that ur first sentence is completely wrong.u don't know how many iraqis is killed everyday duo to US army..don't think that all iraqis people want and wanted US military existance in Iraq... if u r so i'm sorry ur too deceivedYour freedom doesn't mean we killed in iraq. The number of innocent killed people is increasing everyday...everything is getting worse and worse...if u think i'm wrong and the iraq is better after the war, i advise u to make a tour there, and u will be shoked...Muhammad

 

Because of Rockprincess, I'll keep it civil. My friend, check your facts. Iraq was invaded, and the Baath Party who held power was toppled. The Iraqi army was disbanded and disarmed. Several statues of Saddam Hussain on BIAP road and in front of the Palestine Hotel were toppled. An interim government was formed, and once basic institutions were in place, a constitution was drafted, and ratified by elected Iraqi officials. As a little side bar, I have a video of one of our vehicles that was hit with an IED, it was on fire. In the background is a large picture of a colored finger which symbolizes the elections. Freedom is not free my friend. Every day U.S. reps meet with national and local officials coordinating the Iraqi reconstruction, and stabilization. As far a treating Iraqis with dignity and respect, nothing is further from the truth. Our holidays and days off are coordinated with Muslim holidays and work weeks, We put ourselves at great risk to meet with officials instead of having them come to us as a sign of respect. In the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad there is an entire section of the palace dedicated as a prayer room for Muslims. The list goes on and on. The reason why there is a perception of Bush vs Muslims is because of propaganda. You see, terrorism is not just bombs and guns, its media and perception. Why do you think a terrorist blows up a car bomb in a market and kills 65 Iraqis. It is to persuade the American people into thinking Iraq is a failed policy, that is terrorist tactics at is meanist.

 

I respect your point of view on this issue, Chsnash, but you've come into a community of people who are here everday and respect each other...I don't think any of us are here to win your friendship and but we do welcome your information on what's happening in Iraq. I was against the war from day one and I still am. However, I respect the men and women that are over in the Middle East risking their lives for me everday. I do not believe that we will ever see the end of terrorism in my lifetime...However, I didn't believe I'd ever see the Berlin wall come down either.
I am not and never was a George Bush backer; I didn't vote for him and I've never regretted that...I would like to have seen our troops go after Bin Ladin for what he has done to us. Saddam was an evil twisted man but I would have preferred to see him spend the rest of his life in prison. If this makes me a bad person then so be it. Again I thank you for your service to our country..

 

I'm already here Arab Guy, and have been here for quite a while. Very few innocent Iraqis are killed by U.S. troops. The few occasions where this happens, the incident is investigated and usually ends up with U.S. Soldiers in prison. Like I said, propaganda, seems to be the order of the day, not facts.

 

Thanks, I agree with you on many points. It seems though that some of these people wanted arguments and facts to back up my thoughts, and when I gave them the facts, they didn't want to listen, and I made the "ignore list". My opinion is when people are challenged, they get mad and pout. Of all this I respect you the most because you have your opinions, but have respect for those of us who differ. That shows maturity, and intellect. We should have wrapped up Afghanistan before going to Iraq. The Iraqi army should have never been disabanded at the lower ranks, and we should have locked down the borders. These are critical Bush mistakes that we are dealing with now. Thanks for not being childish.

 

Few!!!!!!! i don't think so, anyway a lot of people(Iraqis and American soldiers) are being dead for no reason...these people wouldn't be dead unless this war...All i know that US administration had NO right to invade Iraq and cause this people to die..There was peace in the middle east but now not??can u give me the reasons??i think the only reason is the US adminstration control on our lives...It's right we want to raise family and work, but we need to do that by ourselves and nobody has the right to make it for us...

 

That's right few, whenevery U.S. troops kill innocent civilians it makes world news, so we know about it. Saddam Hussain has killed upwards of 800,000 people during his reign from the early eighties. Terrorist camps associated with Al-Qaida were operating in Iraq in the late nineties, and Saddam tried to buy depleted uranium in the Sudan in the nineties. I see your from Syria, Saddam invaded Kuwait, caused a catatstrophic war with Iran for 10 years and continually violated 19 U.N resolutions for 12 years. He was manufacturing chemical, and biological weapons and used them to kill Kurds. He murdered Iraqis who disagreed with him, including members of his own family. He represented the apex of instability and aggression in the middle east, not to mention the fact he had the largest army in the region. You tell me, He probably was not going to invade America, but he certainly proved capable of invading and persecuting his neighbors, including Syria. So if you think there was peace in the middle east before the war, just ask the 800,000 dead at the hands of Saddam.

 

Chsnash,

Estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed since the initial invasion range as high as 600,000. Nobody is claiming that U.S. soldiers killed that many, but our invasion and subsequent occupation created the conditions under which they were killed. We bear that responsibility, and Bush bears that responsibility, whether you like it or not.

Secondly, I heard you say back there that chemical weapons had been found but not reported by CNN. There WERE attempts to broadcast this information by that bastion of objective reporting, FOX News. However, it soon became obvious to everyone who bothered to find out the facts that the so-called chemical weapons were a few old cannisters of Sarin gas way past it's shelf life, dating back to the period before the FIRST gulf war. If it were otherwise, the Bush Administration would be trumpeting the news every chance they get.

So why don't you get YOUR facts straight?

 

I actually read that Saddam was responsible for l,300,000 deaths during his reign of terror. He was a murderer to the nth degree. However, it was reported here that the gallow were set up on US occupied land and we had built them. If this is true we didn't belong involved in that. He was an evil man and he paid with his life. I think spending the rest of his life in jail would have been much better with only the barest of necessities..

 

Who tells u that ??? the news??? So i want u to know that the news is not always honest and here we know a lot of things that u don't know where u live..don't expect to hear from CNN that US army took 200 iraqis men to the prison for no reason... don't expect to hear that US soldiers in iraq assaulting iraqis wives and daughters...

Do u think that Saddam is the only leader that tried to have nuclear weapon?? did u forget the nuclear weapon that Israel has?? did u forget the nuclear weapon that Korea has?? and nobody asked them why...

I agree with u in this point

Who was supporting Saddam Husein during his war??? US and most of the the world.

. Did u forget that israel violates more than 19 UN resolution??? if u want their number, i can look for them later, but nobody asked why???Can u count how many VETOs US use to protect Isreal and help Israel in 1973,1967 and 1982 and others??

I repeat : he was not the only leader in the world that did somthing worse.

You are not the person who decide that. The only arab country that was in danger of attack is Kuwait but no longer after 1991

Correct ur information : Israel had and has the largest army in the region and the 3rd army in the world.

First : it's none of US business. Second : we didn't fear any time to be invaded by iraq, but in the other hand, we are alway (till this moment) in danger of Israel attacks.

i know it was awful crime, but israel made WORSE than he did. a lot people in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Palastine were killed in Israel wars against us supported by the world...If u want I can give u photos for the blood bathes that Israel did against ALL its neighbors to believe me.We US doesn't invade Isreal instead of Iraq???? Can u tell me???