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  1. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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  2. origen01

    origen01 Porn Star

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    Ok, Ace now I agree with stumbler and you are just being a phony.

    You are distorting several facts.

    This is proposed regulation and has not been finalized by the statute.

    *not_secure_link*www.cov.com/files/Uploads/Documents/Proposed%20Regulation.pdf

    ...and...
    Obama has gone on the record many times and said that his anti-tax stance does not extend to families making more than $250,000 annually. Granted, he does brack-track on his anti-tax stance elsewhere in the statute but not here. Plus, you have to remember the law was written by Congress. The President doesn't have full control of the markup process. I know, you'll say it's a dodge. In return, I'd say get over it--it's a step in the right direction and some taxes are not the end of the world. I'm not happy about paying but they're necessary and they won't kill us.

    The ACA doesn't hide the fact that its intended purpose is discourage Americans from being underinsured. Flexible Spending Accounts
    have been very useful in the past where individuals and employers were not able to purchase health insurance. Having a tax-free fund for medical expenses--oftentimes matched by employer contributions--was better than nothing but was unquestionably inefficient in providing comprehensive care..

    However, Sec. 5000A of the ACA changes all of that and ALL Americans are simply urged to get health insurance. As for using FSAs for out-of-pocket medical expenses, the ACA limits out-of-pocket expenses for insured enrollees according to Sec. 1302 of the law.

    I love how you hid the fact that you got all this info from Forbes.com. Always own up to your source, man, and the potential biases they might have.

    *not_secure_link*www.forbes.com/sit...e-insurance-premium-rebates-might-be-taxable/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2012
  3. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    What's so stupid here Ace is that this isn't a lie. Its a difference of opinion and terminology. So President Obama and the Democrats prefer the word penalty instead of tax and the supreme Court disagrees. That doesn't make it a lie.

    A lie is saying that the ACA amounts to a massive tax increase on all Americans when in fact the penalty is estimated to effect less than 1% of the country.

    Fox Vs. Fox On "Massive New Tax" That Only Affects A Small Number Of People


    *not_secure_link*mediamatters.org/blog/201206290018
     
  4. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    I've already granted that people can call it a "tax" if they want to but its not a tax on the middle class. Its not the biggest "tax increase" in US history. And its not a massive new tax on the American people.

    Whether penalty or tax it will still effect an estimated 1% of the population.
     
  5. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    Health care industry relieved by Supreme Court ruling on ACA?




    *not_secure_link*www.rawstory.com/r...stry-relieved-by-supreme-court-ruling-on-aca/
     
  6. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    Local Tea Party Leader: ‘I Hope The Supreme Court Justices Get Colon Cancer’


    *not_secure_link*thinkprogress.org/...-the-supreme-court-justices-get-colon-cancer/
     
  7. Deleted User kekw

    Deleted User kekw Porn Star Banned!

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    Why do you even bother with him? He clearly didn't even read the article beyond the fucking title. What he quoted isn't even what the fucking title is referring to, and when you pointed that out he changed his "point".

    Why bother with somebody who's so fucking stupid? I genuinely wonder how some people here have actual jobs.
     
  8. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    I bother because of my personal battle against the lie of conservatism as it is preached and practiced in this nation. And because I also believe Ace is just acting dumb because he can't face the failure and falseness of his ideology.

    Also he can pretty much be counted on to take what ever he sees or hears from the right wing false propaganda and post it on nearly a daily basis and therefore works well to shoot down the latest conservative/Republican/Tea Party lies and misinformation.
     
  9. hawkco119

    hawkco119 Sex Lover

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    Stumbler once again proves his ignorance I have not changed my story have said since decision came out OBAMA LIED and I stick to it.... He said no taxes and he lied proof is in the pudding..... And you can call a dog a cat but its still a dog so you can call a penalty a penalty but its still a TAX so you can try to deflect as many times has you wish Stumbler but i stick to what i have said ALLL ALONG OBAMA LIED AGAIN and you cant just acceept that not my problem but i will continually state this simple FACT
     
  10. signatory12

    signatory12 Sex Machine

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    it's been two days now sice the "It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!" argument got flushed down the toilet, and now conservatives are trying their 'latest-and-greatest' lie on for size: "IT'S A TAX!!!!!!!" and trying to imply it's going to hit everyone.
    guys, a hint: just remember all the folks who had egg on their faces right after the Supreme Court insisted the ACA *was* constitutional before you go trying to make some other false excuse up.
     
  11. signatory12

    signatory12 Sex Machine

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    you know, if you just come out of the closet and admit you're a conservative troll, you'll feel such a wave of relief. no more having to hide it, just the freedom to be.....yourself (whatever the hell that might be).:excited::excited::excited::excited::excited::excited:
     
  12. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    Oh yes you most certainly did change your story. Here's what you said in your own words.

    Now you start out with the lie that President Obama raised taxes on the middle class. And once I proved that a lie you came back with he said he would not raise taxes which is a lie because he's always said he wants to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000. And then finally you claim President Obama thinks of this as a penalty not a tax and the Supreme court disagrees. It doesn't mean he lied. It simply means the Supreme court calls it a tax.

    But even if it is a tax it will only effect about 1% of the population you ignorant bald faced liar.

    Nope you're now the hysterical liar because President Obama campaigned on doing away with tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 and is campaigning on the "Buffet rule" right now that would raise taxes on millionaires.

    And I stick by what I said and still say you are a bullshit, hysterical liar that even lies about what you said when you said it.
     
  13. tim929

    tim929 Porn Star

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    As for paying for the federal assistance part of making sure everyone has health care, that will obviously come from taxes. One of the things they are hoping for (goverment and insurance companies) is that millions of young people who currently dont carry health insurance will be forced to pay for something that many of us waited until we were in our forties to buy, thus increasing the number of profitable years a person pay into the system befor they start falling appart and getting sick.

    In theory its a great idea but the fact that this is a mandate that forces people to buy a product from for profit companies whos shareholders expect obscene profit margins, I expect that within a decade this will all fall appart and we will be forced into some form of blanket, government health insurance instead. Like medicare but bigger and more expensive and ultimately doomed to fail.

    Until the profit motive can be reigned in for the insurers, health providers, pharmsuitical companies and medical equipment providers, health care is going to be nothing more than a giant mine field.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2012
  14. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    No, not really, at least according to Noble Prize winning economist Paul Krugman. According to him, the real problem with our present system is it not only puts US businesses at a severe disadvantage, our current system is also mathematically unsustainable.

    And I think Krugman offers an excellent explanation (especially for someone like you) of that right here:

    *not_secure_link*www.nybooks.com/ar...e-health-care-crisis-and-what-to-do-about-it/

    But you see Medicare is actually one of the most successful healthcare programs we've got, with the exception that the Veterans Administration at least got to put their medication and supply needs out for bid and there fore get a lot better deal than Medicare does. (A distinct advantage preserved for the pharmaceutical industry as a payoff for their suppport by the Obama Administration in the ACA).

    And Medicare is also one of the most popular health care programs we have which I believe the conservative/Republican/Tea Baggers will soon be reminded of.

    The real problem is we have an entire for profit and Wall Street traded industry forcing themselves between the American people and their doctors and health care facilities for the sole purpose of making as much money as possible off those they are supposed to be serving.

    But then on the other side we have somewhere between 30 and 50 million uninsured who still get sick and injured (those 25 to 35 year-olds as well) and must be treated but cannot pay. Which is why it costs more than $100 to cross the threshold of the emergency room and a band-aid in the costs $5.00 once inside.

    We have to face the fact (and believe me I have questioned them on it often) that even the self identified "conservatives" on this forum are not willing to start allowing men women and children to die in the streets, so we have to figure out some way of paying for it. And that's where the billions in profits the health care insurance companies are skimming off need to go.

    Once again I most kindly invite you to at least skim Krugman's piece because while you are right about this most people overlook the fact that in an increasingly global market the rising health care costs not only result in the single largest reason for US personal bankruptcies, US businesses are saddle with providing insurance and absorbing those same increases which most businesses we are competing with in other nations don't have such a millstone around their necks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2012
  15. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    I've said this a few times before, but not for awhile, and must say it again now. It is at times very difficult to maintain my partisan passion and personal crusade in a time as politically fascinating to political observers as tin foil shiny side up is to a Pack Rat. And these past four or so years have not only been that, the intensity and fascination has only increased since then.

    And the Supreme Court Case decision on the ACA is a perfect example of that. Because, just for example, I'd say it does not matter where you are on the political spectrum, anyone (including me) who claims they were not surprised by the decision is bullshitting.

    So consequently all the various political camps were I suspect equally surprised which of course directs their response both offensively and defensively. But let's also get real here for a second and admit its not like the basic Republican and Democratic camps et. al. had not already prepared responses to both possible outcomes.

    That was just so clear when the Republicans almost in unison, and down to the man (literally) all launched two basic arguments. One, just because the Supreme court said the ACA was constitutional didn't mean they said it was good policy or a good law. And the other was that President Obama said this was not a tax, and also said he would not raise taxes on the middle class. And yet the Supreme court said it was a tax. Therefore President Obama lied twice.

    Ok so now the question to me at least is how are they doing on that?

    Well because as I have said many many times President Obama is the most intelligent, effective, and hardest working President I've seen in my lifetime no so good it appears to me.

    I know many pundits and others have claimed this is actually a conservative victory because it will fire up the base, but let's also face this fact, its the Independents that will likely decide this election, and they are now normally swayed by brainwashed parrot bullshit. So instead it appears to me the GOP has been crowded once again into impossible contradictions that thinking individuals cannot overlook.

    Let's take the its a tax argument for a minute.

    First the White House is sticking to their story it isn't a tax and turning the tables on the GOP to prove their point.

    Check out White House Chief of Staff Jack Lew's response:


    Does that sound familiar? Isn't it the same as saying; "the court said it was constitutional. They didn't say it was a good law"? Because in this case they are saying the court didn't label a tax, they just said what ever it was was permissible under the constitutional powers to tax.



    Read more: *not_secure_link*www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78053.html#ixzz1zPXXDXZt

    See its not a tax, its a choice. One that only effects 1% of the population.

    And then ........... by the way, if this is a tax didn't Mitt Romney "raise taxes" when he implemented "Romneycare"? (God I love that one).:excited:

    How do the conservative/Republican/Tea Baggers answer that one? Simple, they don't.


    *not_secure_link*tpmdc.talkingpoint...gop-push-to-label-obamacare-a-tax.php?ref=fpa


    Now strictly from my slanted perspective at least its very difficult to trap your opposition in their own arguments and use them against them. But this gets way better than that.


    And that's because while the GOP had their arguments and political strategy all lined out, they completely forgot to consider any alternatives or solutions. So again consequently when all they did was say the court might have said it was constitutional but it was still a bad law they intended to repeal when asked what parts they would repeal or what their alternatives were the GOP talking heads were caught flat-footed (again).


    Norah O’Donnell Hammers John Boehner: ‘When You Repeal [Obamacare], What Are You Going To Replace It With?’

    *not_secure_link*www.mediaite.com/t...macare-what-are-you-going-to-replace-it-with/

    And believe me

    Mitch McConnell On 30 Million Uninsured: 'That Is Not The Issue' (VIDEO)

    And check the retracition his office had to issue after saying 30 million Americans didn't count.:excited:

    *not_secure_link*www.huffingtonpost...-mcconnell-uninsured-obamacare_n_1641033.html

    So that's how the GOP is doing but what about my side. It would be kind of chicken shit just to watch the GOP self destruct without any risks of our own.

    And to that end allow the most hated Nancy Pelosi to step into the ring and just put the verbal boots to the GOP proving once again she actually has the biggest balls in Congress:

    Pelosi: Health care decision a ‘victory for the American people’

    On Meet the Press, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi talks about the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act.


    *not_secure_link*www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/48031785#48032127


    Now I'm sure opinions will vary but if you ask me its a good time to be a Democrat.
     
  16. AZRIEL

    AZRIEL BROTHER GRIM

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    *not_secure_link*25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3b0wg4MlP1qewacoo1_500.png
     
  17. Captain_awesome

    Captain_awesome Sex Machine

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  18. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    I just might agree with your screen name and proved mine by stumbling into posting this same clip without checking yours first. :eek:

    But that being said what a wonderful and powerful response from TYT. Thanks for beating me to it.

    It sounds better the way you said it.:)
     
  19. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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  20. x__orion

    x__orion ::.unhomed.::

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    Say, Ace, will you have to pay extra tax as a result of this?